David Litwak:
Hello, everyone, and thanks for joining us today for how I got here, Mozilla and focus wires weekly podcast about innovators in travel and transportation. Today we have Paul Mel, who’s the founder and CEO of Tours by locals, the world’s leading provider of private tours and experiences, with 1700 carefully selected tour guides in 130 countries around the world. Thanks for joining us say, Paul.
Paul Melhus:
Nice to be here. Thanks. Nice to see you guys. Just wanted to make one quick, quick correction about the number of tour guides are actually up over 4700. Now,
David Litwak:
my bad my bad on that one? Well, so we like to start every one of these conversations the same way, which is for us to ask you how you got here.
Paul Melhus:
Great. Sure. Well, the story actually starts in 2006. My partner and I are Dave Vincent, who’s the technical fellow Tours by locals took a trip to China. And on our last day, we still hadn’t visited the Great Wall. So we, we had a couple of options. One of them was to go to the coast spy section of the wall, at battling, but that’s kind of like the Disney version of the Great Wall. It’s where everybody goes, lots of tour buses, packs of people. So we decided that we wanted a different experience, hired a driver to take us two hours out of Beijing to a place called simit. Thai. And that’s more of an authentic version of the wall hasn’t been all fixed up. So as we’re walking on to the to start our little visit, we passed a group of Chinese women, two of whom came after us and introduced themselves and, you know, they spoke pretty good English, and we started interacting with them. And they actually ended up giving us a really good tour of the wall. And not only that, we learned something about their lives and what it was like to be, you know, more actually, they were farmers in their regular job, and they just did this on the side. So, of course, there was always an undercurrent of why are they doing this, what’s what’s in it for them. And indeed, at the end of the tour, when we are ready to go to the airport, they brought out all of their books and their cards and all of the little tchotchkes that we didn’t really have any interest in. But you know, it kind of sets up an obligation. So we bought some stuff. And I think both of us left a little bit unsatisfied, because we basically run out of Chinese cash, because we’re going to the airport and, and we didn’t have enough room for all of their stuff anyways, so. But that started the conversation between Dave and myself about how this could have been made a much better experience, both for us and for them. And over the course of two years. We developed all the concepts, and we’re in October of 2008. We’re ready to launch Tours by locals. And the rest of it is history, shall we say?
Kevin May:
So thanks so much, Paul, for joining us. I really appreciate it. And you did have some involvement in travel with your business prior to that, which was my trip journal. Oh, yeah, yeah. So tell us a little bit about that. And I suppose the obvious thing to ask really is, what did you learn from that particular business that you then took into Tours by locals, if anything? Or did you learn so much that you would never take anything from that previous experience?
Paul Melhus:
Well, certainly, it had some. It’s funny, that actually was just a kind of little side project for a friend of ours who was actually taking him and his wife and kids on a two month trip through China as it turned out, so they use that to document their, their journey. And then after that, we basically in conjunction with the, the fellow who was our friend and taking that China China trip, developed my trip journal, which is kind of a blogging platform for people who travel. I don’t know that we learned too much about about that. It certainly was a benefit for us because it generated some, some cash and it allowed us to have the luxury of not having to work while we you know, we’re able to do my Tours by locals. Yeah. But But in terms of learning from that in and travel, yeah. I think the idea for my for tours, by the way was, you know, with it was a bit of hubris on my part that, you know, we were basically trying to build a platform. That would be, it’s all about me, you know, and and how I wanted to how I like to travel, how I want to interact with local people. And, you know, we’ve was it was based on the desires that I have, as far as my preferred method of traveling and, you know, we have maybe come up with some sort of post hoc justifications as to why that was, what, what, why that was a good idea. But in in 2006, we’re just thinking, well, how would I like to do that, you know, I don’t want to carry around any cash. So I want to pay somebody else, all of the money for the tour. And then they can deal with all of the mechanics of getting it to the guide, and I just want to show up and have my experience. So that led us to think that, well, we have to collect the money, hold it in trust, and then release it to the guide once the tour was successfully delivered. So there was all kinds of, you know, anytime we came up with an idea, or a situation, we just said, Well, you know, how am I as the traveler, what would be the best thing for me, and then that’s basically how we developed it. And of course, but we did always keep in mind, the interests of the guide. So we we really do believe that we serve to customers, travelers and guides and, and we try to, you know, make things good for the guide and also for the traveler and keep those values at the forefront of everything that we do.
Kevin May:
Now it’s it’s it is a very much a kind of a classic tours and activities model is news, that two sided marketplace. But it goes it’s an awful long way from you having that experience in China going Wouldn’t it be great to creating something that’s beyond a good idea to getting some customers on both sides of the marketplace? Because it is a two sided marketplace? And then getting to scale? So how, what were the steps, Paul, that you went through? For? This is a great idea, getting me an Aussie to sketch out a business plan, those kind of things, to the to the, to the point where Okay, this actually might work?
Paul Melhus:
Sure. Well, I have to say that there was an incredible amount of luck that we had, first of all, having the financial wherewithal to not worry about, you know, feeding ourselves for two years, while we could, you know, build out the product and first version ready to go. And then the starting it in October of 2008. Because that was one month after Lehman Brothers basically crashed the world. And so, you know, when the, the world is kind of spiraling down, I think is a really great time to start a business. If I was starting a business, from scratch, now would probably be a really good time to go because we’re in a, we’re in a crisis mode. But back in 2008, we realized that there was a kind of chicken and egg problem that we had, you know, if you have no guides, why would travelers come to your website? And if you have no travelers, why would guides bother, you know, spending any time talking to you, but in in 2008, and basically through 2010? You know, this was the great recession, people in the travel industry was seriously depressed. And all we had to do was focus on signing up guides. And that’s that’s basically what we did. Knowing that or hoping I guess, that travel would come back at some time. And indeed, that’s, that’s what happened. So during those 2008 2009 till 2010, we were just focused on getting a critical mass of content on the website, enough tour guides, and it was fairly easy to sign people up, you know, they were sitting around, in fact, are the fellow who’s the current president of Tours by locals is was a guide of ours in Argentina is Luciana borsky. And yeah, he was playing online poker or something when one of our little ads popped up and so we filled it out and and, and because came our first guide in Buenos Aires and did a really great job there, and then eventually, is now the president of the company. So
Kevin May:
just just before Dave, David, and I was gonna jump in, in second, but on that you said you started going to recruiting, if that’s the right word, your tour guides, even without perhaps any business to, to, you know, to keep them busy because things were going badly wrong from a financial perspective in the industry. And how did you and you don’t need just launched? How did you convince them that this was something that was just essentially you were a directory for them at this stage? And you were saying, you know, when this is all over, everything’s going to be great. And you’re so busy?
Paul Melhus:
Yeah, well, of course, you know, we would come across, as you know, we’ve got this great platform, we’re going to bring you travelers and, and be a great source of business for you to, you know, to run your tour guide. business. And, you know, even if they didn’t think that there was much chance of that happening, there really wasn’t a lot of downside, they were taking, you know, maybe five or six hours to build up their profile, put up the tours that they wanted to sell on the website, and then, you know, kind of we’re open for business. But the fact that we didn’t have any business wasn’t such a big deal, because they weren’t getting any business from anywhere anyways. Right? So, you know, we were, we were sure, maybe it wouldn’t amount to anything, but what’s the downside? I wasted five or six hours of my time putting up a profile. So it was a pretty easy setup. In most days. But, well, maybe right now, it’s actually hard to recruit guides, because I think everybody’s a little bit shell shocked. But yeah, it pre pre COVID. In 2020 19, we were, it wasn’t, it’s not an easy task to to get new people up and running. Because everybody’s, you know, the world economy was firing on all cylinders. Back in those days, of course, you know, the world, everything is completely shifted now. So, but, you know, thinking about how things went from, you know, 2008 2009, where we were in the depths of the recession, you know, we’ve been really, up until 2019, the end of 2019. It’s been a pretty great ride for every economy, or every segment to the economy. And, and certainly the travel industry is benefited enormously, and Tours by locals, I think was riding a really strong trend, away from mass tourism, and you know, towards some horsnell customized experience. So, you know, because our, our full, we’ve always been all about private tours
David Litwak:
about when actually do it. I want to interrupt you there. And actually, can I expand a little bit on something you just said, you said move away from, from mass tourism. And so it’s funny. So there, there seemed, there was a point in time in which there was a lot of Airbnb for activities, kind of startups, you know, popping up and tours. And I remember hearing for one of my friends in the tourism activities world that actually, most people just want to hop on hop off bus. And that is kind of like the dirty little secret of the industry. And, you know, what was interesting is that, like, I feel like the idea of the unique local experience is one of the travel industry’s great false gods, almost where it’s kind of like, you know, everyone wants this like graffiti tour and an alley or something like that, that it’s really hard for them to get it. So I almost feel like my travel industry expertise makes me want to think that Tours by locals is this really great idea that it just isn’t going to work. But it’s a great idea that has worked and you just raise a lot of money and if proven that that wrong. And so I’m curious, I’d love to get your analysis about like, Where Where is everyone kind of missing? You know, the idea of, of how to get away from mass tourism. And how do you do that? Because I think a lot of people have tried to do what you did, did and failed.
Paul Melhus:
Yeah, there’s certainly. Well, we noticed, yeah, companies popping up all over the place. And then they kind of disappear fairly quickly. And so yeah, I we have been successful. I mean, we started to we’ve been self financed for up until December 24. Our timing was impeccable in terms of raising venture capital for sure. But we were able to, to kind of self fund. Right all you know, Dave and I kicked in maybe $250,000. And that was Mostly so we could eat, you know, and that the business has sell as funded itself, right from the get go. And we’ve, we’ve been able to generate growth of, you know, 40% or so per year, right from, I guess, up into starting in 2010, there was some time when we were not, you know, we were starting to doubt ourselves. But we, and I actually credit Dave on being having the courage to start spending money on Google pay per click advertising and buying wrong private tour and making sure that we’re in the top three, that seemed to kind of launch us on a, on a nice growth curve, and, of course, all the other stuff that that that you need to do in order to be successful. But we’ve been relentlessly focused on private tours everywhere people travel, you know, all of our principles about the guide is the guide, you pay in advance, so there’s no cash on the day, which actually is considered to be, well, there’s psychological validation that that creates a better experience, when you don’t have when there’s a big distance between when you pay for something, and when you actually consume it, you’re more likely to enjoy the experience, if you then when you get on a hop on hop off bus, because you have to pay cash in the moments or anything. So but in so that’s part of it, and just kind of sticking to our basic principles. And it seems to work. I mean, when we went through, you know, the due diligence with the venture capitalists, of course, they did a market study and talk to our travelers. And we came in with a net promoter score of 79, which is pretty much off the charts as far as you know. As for customers, you know, so, yeah.
Kevin May:
It’s interesting. I mean, I, to David’s point about, you know, this kind of mass tourism products and the, you know, that what you provide, which is very, very focused, it’s specialized, it’s personalized. I, you probably know, Luke holzinger, who’s the CEO of tickets, and you’ll be able to read, Luke, so Luke is a great guy. And we, we should probably get him on the podcast at some point. But he always puts this very succinctly said, Yes, people want to go and do a culinary tour of the east side of the river in Paris. But when they’re there, they still want to climb the Eiffel Tower, you know, these two things can coexist, you can be cool. But you can still go and do all these mass market things. So my question really is, have Have you ever been tempted, but just because the unit economics are often better? So if you are part of it, as well, just to kind of bolster some of the other things that you do? Is there ever been that temptation?
Paul Melhus:
Hmm, some people have suggested that we should branch out, but we have, we’ve kept our relentless focus just on private tours, calm, you know, and, and, and not been seduced by anything else. So but you know, you do make a good point. And I think a lot of our tours are kind of, you know, first time visitors tour of Paris. So, you know, you do see, you know, the loop and the Eiffel Tower, and all of those kind of things. But all our guides, you know, and this is something that we talked to them about, is they need to have some kind of unique experiences some in their back pocket, that is, you know, they read the group. And then so they’ve always got that little secret thing that kind of gives the aha moment that you’re not expecting. And I think that’s part of the success of Tours by locals. Is that we always offer that kind of aha moment, as well as you know, the the things that everybody wants to see in Paris. Oh, yeah. And
Kevin May:
so take us back again, if you if you if you can pull to the conceptual side of it, how did you decide on a business model? What was how did you kind of come up with the way you were going to kind of organize this two sided marketplace from a from an economics perspective?
Paul Melhus:
Um, but we certainly spent time talking to tour guides about what they thought was reasonable in terms of the revenue share that you know if the tour is going to cost $100 how much goes to the plant form, and how much goes to the guide. And we, we settled on a kind of 8020 split. So, you know, the majority of the revenue does go to the, to the guide and out of the 20%, that is for Tours by locals, and we pay the credit card fees and all of that sort of thing. So, we are a pretty low margin business. So we do need to be very conscious of cost and, you know, customer acquisition. And but basically, I think we got through a lot of it just by, you know, keeping our eye really on the interests and needs of the customer and getting them to be kind of brand advocates for us and, you know, telling their friends, essentially, so, but, you know, these are all still, you know, basic problems for any business, how do you acquire customers at an economic cost? You know, when when the when the pandemic hit, and, you know, basically, we stopped all of our pay per click advertising, and then we thought, oh, let’s just kind of restart it and come back past comes with a very private Athens tour for one click. And that was pretty outrageous, because I just don’t believe that there was, you know, in in a real auction that there was other people that were willing to bid us up to $6. a click. So we quickly put a lot of caps on how much we’re willing to pay to make Google even wealthier than they are. So
Kevin May:
yeah, and just on the commission. element of the story. I mean, yeah, has that changed much over the years, as you’ve seen competition? Comment, fleetingly go, it seems, you know, there have been as we as, as you were discussing with David A moment ago, there has been a brand’s arrive and then disappear fairly quickly. But did you have to alter your commission level at all, to kind of use the competition or to just kind of strengthen your relationship with the guide, or has it remained consistent,
Paul Melhus:
it’s it’s been consistently that 8020 split, we have just never changed it, we, I do have this idea that we need to figure out how to do a better job of monetizing the business. So we might need to look at some kind of service fee on the same lines of Airbnb, you know, they tack on 10%. But we want to do that in a in a tourist by local sway, maybe one of the things that we’ve learned from the COVID is that you need to be very flexible on the cancellation side of things. And I think we actually, I’m really happy that we were able to get out front of the industry, in terms of offering cancellations to customers, like we just said, you know, we’re gonna give everybody a refund that wants it. And we actually did give them the choice, they could take a full refund or the amount paid paid plus 10%, as a, as a promo code, and about 20% of customers took us up on that the other 80% wanted their cash. And we were really fortunate to be first of all, to have the financial wherewithal to make those kinds of refunds, because I think a lot of companies probably wouldn’t be able to do that. But I think it’s earned us an enormous amount of goodwill, that will serve us in the future going forward. Right now, we basically are messages, book and cancel anytime. And, you know, that’s the only way that people are going to be willing to risk booking a tour, if they know that they can cancel. But you know, our history kind of serves us well, because, you know, we already walked that walk and gave everybody that needed to have a refund a refund. So I’m very happy we were able to do that.
Kevin May:
So and it’s interesting. I mean, the story that we wrote in January 13. This year, you know, Tours by local survives a decade of bootstrapping raises 33 million to accelerate growth, written by our my colleague, Steven, and it’s it. You know that the headline says it all you did a year of bootstrapping, and then all of a sudden you’ve raised big money. Talk us through if you can pull the process by which I’m guessing early 2019, mid 2019 you suddenly Okay, we, let’s get john raise a lot of money, there’s some money kind of swimming around into his activities, it’s still seen as the hot hot, you know, the hot sex. And I was thinking that you should just kind of see some of the cash that was swirling about or was there something else? Or was it a number of things?
Paul Melhus:
Well, yeah, of course, it was such a different world back in 2019. But basically, yes, you’re quite right to tourism activities seemed like the last bit of the travel industry that, you know, was where money was flowing, because, you know, air fares and hotels, that was a done deal. So now the the third part of the market and, and really, the reason why people travel is tours and activities. So there was a lot of money floating about in that, for that sector. And we were, every, every week, I would get a kind of over the transom request from a different venture capitalist asking about, you know, what our plan is, you know, can we talk and so we actually, we talked to a lot of a lot of venture capitalists, because it just seemed like, you know, to me, it seemed like the right time, you know, we’ve been kind of, as you say, you know, the headline is very correct, we were bootstrapping. And, but I think we got it to a point where it just seemed like there was, you know, we created this value, we didn’t have any money in our own pockets. Because every, you know, we’re constantly reinvesting, in, you know, to keep up with the growth for next year. So we’d be opening new offices, hiring people, you know, we never really showed a lot of profit, more or less kind of a breakeven scenario. My thesis is that you can either grow really fast, or you can be profitable, but you can’t really do both of them at the same time, generally speaking, so we’ve we had always focused on growth. And it seemed, to me at the end, by the time 2019 rolled around, that it was time for us to take a little bit of money off the table, because every everything for myself and Dave, and actually Luciana was an equal partner in the company as well, it was time for us to take a bit of money into our own pockets, de risking strategy, if you will. But we also could see that we were nowhere near realizing what the potential of Tours by locals could become. And it seemed prudent that we should look for some of investment to kind of guarantee that 40% growth, because, you know, it’s one thing to grow when you’re giving 1000 tours a year, but, you know, we were up in 120,000 individual tours per year range, but in 2019, and, you know, how do you grow beyond that? Well, you need to be able to hire really smart people, much smarter than I am, about how to how to manage that growth, and, you know, marketing and systems. And, you know, we had, we had taken a lot of shortcuts on the kind of back end systems that that underpin Tours by locals, and we needed to be able to invest in those. So we could just see that there was a lot of things that that we needed to do if we wanted to kind of keep that growth trajectory going. Because I still believe, you know, of course, everything changed. But back in those days, and and there were, we were still not really capturing a large, huge percentage of the market seemed like there was still lots more potential for, for the company to grow our sales. And we just would need the resources to be able to do that.
Kevin May:
I find this particularly interesting in that because, you know, for a decade, you probably wouldn’t have had to rub shoulders with the venture capital world. I wonder what you actually made of it once you started accepting some of those phone calls from VCs that were clearly interested in tears, but because what you just made of that culture and the way they kind of operate and the things that they would be asking from you. And their vision for what you know, because they obviously have a vision and what Tours by locals can become I mean, was there anything that shocks you surprised you? Things you didn’t like about that kind of world that you were Starting to dip your toes into?
Paul Melhus:
Well, yeah, we got turned down by a number of them, because they wanted to write a bigger check than we wanted to take. For us. We were, we’re like control freaks. And so the the thing that was really important for us is to be able to maintain operational control, we were happy to, you know, we realized that we would be giving up sort of control over the financial aspects of the company. And, and that was fine. But we really wanted to, to make sure that we maintain the operational control of the business and a number of companies that they didn’t want that they wouldn’t go down that road. I mean, they would be happy to let you run it until such time as there was, you know, and but they could always have the hammer to step in, you know. And so that wasn’t a road that we were willing to go down. I guess what surprised me is the, the level of due diligence that we had to go through, you know, like, they’re asking a lot of really difficult questions. And, you know, we took even like personality tests, and, you know, this. Like, I, it turns out that I’m a very excitable person, like, I’m off the charts when it comes to excitability and which, well, now I can use that as a it’s true, actually, I tend to get really excited. But
Kevin May:
tell me what I’m curious about this. I’m glad people don’t do personality tests on journalists, that’s for sure. But no, when, when this was first, you know, when you were told by this particular VC, that you would have to take a personality test test, did you think Hang on a second? Are you joking? Or did you just think, well, we really are getting immersed into a slightly peculiar world here. There was, was it was like a Myers Briggs test or something like that. Yeah, something
Paul Melhus:
like that. I forget that Hogan assessment. I think it’s called. Okay. I don’t know if you’ve ever heard of that. But anyways, and of course, you have to pay for this stuff, right? Because, like, the way these deals work, is that the venture capitalist is kind of on the hook for the due diligence process, until such time as you actually complete the deal. And then, you know, you pay for the market study, and, and the Hogan assessment. I think it cost about 30 $500 for the three of us to take that Yes. No, that was just like, okay, whatever. And, well, I but actually, it turned out to be up for me, I was kind of I liked those kinds of things anyways, and, you know, it kind of confirmed some of the conceits that I have about my personality that they’d like, you know, I’m kind of outside the box thinker, and I’m extraordinarily disorganized. And, but, you know, lots of endless excitability. So, Paul,
David Litwak:
so yeah, I wanted to, you know, follow up on something you said, you said, you want to maintain control. And I, you know, I’m curious how you thought about controlling a product across so many different cultures? Because, you know, and when we talked about France, and, you know, I think the French have a different relation with time and my personal experience living there for a summer. And, you know, you had to manage all different types of cultures and tours and enforced quality across, you know, what is a pretty broad category, private tours can be, you know, much of anything within that, right, like, how did you think about how you actually manage manage the product quality?
Paul Melhus:
Yeah, because that’s basically the reason why customers come to Tours by locals. I mean, originally, I guess, we thought that, you know, kind of sort itself out, sort of, like, I think, kind of Airbnb ish, you know, like, the, they let their customers bet the properties is at least it seems to me, maybe they’re changing a little bit now. But, you know, the the cream rises to the top. But for us, I think the value that we add to, to the tourism activities market is to provide that level of consistent to expectations. And so that’s, that’s been a big part of the reason why we’ve been successful. You know, we have 4700 guides on our platform right now. But if you sign up as a new tour guide, you’re going to get guide number 46,000, I think is what we’re up to. So you know, there’s only about 10% of the people that apply. That that actually made it through the process and have stuck around. And so we we, I mean, we have, they are independent contractors. So, you know, they’re not employees, we can’t, you know, dictate to them a lot of things that we might like to if they were employees, but we do have our business principles and, you know, that they agree to adhere to. And, you know, certainly showing up on time is like, number one. So, actually, that that, that has been, we’re pretty harsh when it comes down to, you know, missing a guide mismanaging customer expectation.
David Litwak:
In some cases, what about, what about just basic cultural differences, like, there are certain cultures that have aggressive demeanors and others that are more passive, they’re like, they’re like, you know, I think this is common, you know, on board, you know, shore excursions off a cruise ship, I remember, sometimes, you know, my, you know, someone would be sitting there complaining, like, Oh, this guy just talks too much, or someone goes, Oh, I loved it, and how did you just, you know, think about personal preferences?
Paul Melhus:
Well, that’s a matter of making sure that the guides understand that the, you know, the customers are different, and that you have to be a little bit of a savant to, you know, to read the person that you’re meeting, I think, one of the things that I have observed is that guides and customers kind of get to know each other through the platform, before the tour actually happens. And, you know, we provide the guide when they, when they get a new inquiry, they see what the history of the customer is, and now we’re, we get a lot of repeat business. So the guide can see the kind of tours that the other customer that the customer is taken, the reviews that they’ve made of other guides, and, you know, so they do get us the guides do get a sense of who they’re dealing with, even before the tour starts, so and most mostly, it seems to me that the the, the the guides have enough sense to figure out that you know, if it’s a Spanish speaking guest, while they probably want you to from the UK or Germany, you know, let them enjoy the scenery a little bit, you know, without filling every second with commentary So, but I don’t know it so far, it hasn’t seemed to be a problem. We, we trust our guides, we let them do you know that they’re, they have their personalities and, you know, people, they kind of select them based, I think on their picture their the video that they have, they read the reviews that other customers have made? And, yeah, it really hasn’t seemed to be a particular problem. As long as they hit on those kind of key things, you know, showing up on time managing it, making sure that all the expectations are taken care of in advance and, you know, the well they get them back to the ship at least a half hour before departure. You know, if it happens to be a shore excursion. Nobody needs that stress.
Kevin May:
No, indeed. So last question. For our for our interview today, Paul. So, and a brief one, really, I mean, you’ve been with the business for over a decade, and you know, the things you were doing before and Sachi a fairly long time for a startup to a founder to be with the business for that amount of time. If you weren’t doing this, what would you think you would be doing instead? What will be your kind of alternative career briefly?
Paul Melhus:
Okay, well, right now, being you know, I’m I’m of a certain age where I don’t feel old, but I’m not young either. So I actually, my what my plan is right now is to figure out how to be replaceable, at Tours by locals, like I don’t want my legacy. I want to be able to have the opportunity to ride off into the sunset and know that you know, the company is in is in good hands. I don’t think we’re quite there yet. And of course, right now, is wouldn’t be the time to to leave but that’s where I want to get back to and I mean as an alternative career really have any, my alternative career is to kind of have my country place overlooking the ocean and where I’m, you know, in that it’s retirement basically that’s, that’s that’s the end goal at this point. But there’s no particular timeframe for that. And I just want to make sure that, that we built a strong enough company that and I’ve been clever enough to hire much smarter and better people than me so that I can leave it in good hands when the time comes.
Kevin May:
Okay, well, we wish you well with that. And we’re all looking forward to retiring at some point. And David’s got about another 50 years ahead of him. Yeah. Thanks. But no, thank you very much, Paul, for joining us as our guest this week on how I got here. We really appreciate your time. Thank you.
Paul Melhus:
Indeed. Yes. Okay, care.
Kevin May:
Okay, so, you’ve been listening to another episode of how I got here. This is mosey on focus wise, weekly podcast where we interview the innovators and entrepreneurs in travel and tourism. We always say this, but it’s good to go do it. Again. You can find us if you’re not a subscriber already, on all the usual platforms, iTunes, Google podcasts, and Spotify. leave us a review. Leave us some feedback. Give us a high rating, please is always good to get in touch. Every week, there’s hundreds of views. And we want to get to many, many more. So please give us a sense of how we’re doing and subscribe. So thanks so much as always, for everybody tuning in. from David and I thanks to you again, Paul. And we’ll see you next time.
Paul Melhus:
Great. Take care.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
