Fabio Cannavale, CEO at Lastminute

David Litwak:
Hello everyone. Welcome to how I got here Mozilla and focus wires weekly podcast about innovators in travel and transportation. Today we’re joined by Fabio cannavale. Fabio is the founder of what is now the last minute Group, a group of companies that have gone by various names over the years including Bravo, phi rumbo. And Volvo graduates and more Fabio founded in 2006. with Marco accorded You know, when they launched Volvo gratis, a search engine for low cost flights in the Italian market, and now owns brands like Rambo Bravo fly jet cost, and after acquired last minute.com, became the last minute.com group on the Swiss Stock Exchange. In addition, Fabio was the third person on the edreams team. So he has a long history in industry. And we’re super thrilled to have him today. Thanks for joining us say Fabio.

Fabio Cannavale:
Hello, hi to everybody.

David Litwak:
So we like to start every one of these interviews the same way which is to ask you the very simple question for you to explain how you got here.

Fabio Cannavale:
Okay, you did ensure array device to store let’s say that if I can buy a little bit earlier that everything is important, I mean engineering, I did the nmba at the insert dementia tree. Then in NTC, then I would join McKinsey what three years McKinsey before I work in it you carry so I did on a lower six year it’s management consulting. Then when 96 I left everything because I was fed up of these management, and I start saving for one year in Dallas, I see with my wife on the wards. Then when I came back, I founded the to the operator because my passion is travel. And such an operator was called floating villetta. This was sending people in Venezuela North Las raucous in Salem, bukti Sean but my KB so I was selling these products to the normal traditional to operator. And in this period as some former car likes founded the dream so and invested in the dream. So So was McKinsey, let’s say relationship. In 99. I joined the team first I invested in the seed that and then I joined in the dream of dreams when I was not doing those and India that was founded in us to do a website like Expedia, let’s say in Europe, but they had no clue about travel. So after a couple of meeting December, February, they tried an expert in travel and passionate about travel, you have to work with us. And so I joined the team as the person to get some shirts, unfortunately, not enough for my road. And I stopped working because I knew Oh, the tour operator all dynamics of travel. And so we get some content. So we launched that in 99. I remember before the end of the crazy. Let’s see. You we are all 529 that there was a special moment at that site in Italy. It was the first sight word wide of dreams. And then I went to Spain and to support the team larger. So the Spanish side. And the stay in dreams for three years was really amazing. Yes was started the difficulty they Google was not existing. And that we were going to advertising to the newspapers, as I mean to decide but was like newspaper. So we were buying at the travel page for a flat amount. And it was a totally different way to work. We rising the drinks $36 million in two years. And it was great. And we had a lot of money to spend then after the crisis of 911. And we have some discussion about our destructor we had stand ready to me do not have to six. So we were thinking what to do next. And there was some, let’s say, discussion among the team. As I own all 3% of agreement again that the two major shareholders, john and Jim set and Abby do control of the company. And I left the dreams but I learned a lot of dreams, because was the first time we did in otas in Europe. And so after I found out that volg rat is not in 06, as you said, but in 04 officially but in reality in 03. Because in the beginning, we were like that this is a totally bootstrapped. So we founded the company with 10,000 rock. This is where the way the reason why me and Marco even after all many years acquisition, IPO, we still own 45% of the company. Because we didn’t have this is a very good lesson for this startup. But we didn’t have any capital in the beginning. So we arrived after six CR in 2010, where we still own 100% of the company. This is very important to keep ownership and also after 16 years, 17 years, we still own and manage the company. This is something goes so that is quite unusual, at least in Europe. So but to come back to the story. So in 03 we said okay, drop All these otaa but no one has local sprites. And so we have the idea to have a platform to sell low cost flights. So Ryanair, EasyJet, it was many airlines, nobody news and it was totally disruption in the market. There was two company doing that Skyscanner in UK, but there was more me to search and thus, anytime. And in the beginning we our first idea was to be a major search. But then we couldn’t do because nobody was paying to us enough in CPC. And so we decided to became otaa was not very easy to understand how could be the missus model because they low cost airlines were not getting gas any money so we had to charge in it agency fee and people going directly to Ryanair, EasyJet will spend less. So it was not so clear how we could survive. But at the end, this product is a huge success. In Italy, we had much more traffic of Expedia for flights in very, very short time, because we had a much better offer, you went to a dream, so to Expedia, and you didn’t have the low cost flights. So again, they won’t like that we were sending a you know, round trip from Milan to London for 5060 euro. In the other website, were costing one that. So we were perceived as the cheapest, the name was more like classified for free. And we had a very good success, we were very good in mastering Google. And that we had a lot of experience of a dream site a lot of content for advertising, we did a lot of trades on pricing. So from a very small company bootstrapped, we will not we did that. By the way. It’s very funny. The first part that we did was luck with lastminute.com, because we didn’t have the, let’s say normal flight, carrier flight. And we did an agreement with last minute comma, to use their site to, to sell carrier fright, so the national carrier, and after two years, I remember they decided to quit disagreement, because we were selling more flights than them on on their own site. And so again, they said that is something that doesn’t work. So we developed the platform to sell the kind of flights. So then you then you say the story, at the end that we will author we change a lot of names. Why? Because we started from a small Italian startup, then first big acquisition was rumo in Spain, and we spent 8 million in 2010 old finals by the banks. And by the money that was inside the company, then we found a brand that was able to sell outside because what I got was not the international brand. And then every time we try when twice we bought company that were larger than us, so Roomba and last minute, and to involve vector all the employees, and to give an idea to be included everyone. And also because the brand was most titles, we change the name of the group and the sky. Now we are gone. If I have to say in one sentence about this journey, which is the value the reason why we are there is because really, you have to change the mentality of the people. So it’s very difficult what you need. When you have a start up with two people with three people in there in the beginning, me and Marco were doing in the night, they a customer care, then we hire one person only to do customer care, then we hire a developer and this kind of team, you need this very different of what we need now that we have more than 1000 employees. And we have lots of HR finance at other times. And I think the quality of the company that can grow is when we have the the know how and the culture really to understand what does it mean to grow a company because the people you need when you are getting Indonesia, the skill of the people totally different of the scale of the stuff that and normally what I see at least Vitaly, the unicorn, let’s say UK’s moved to line we’ve never been at unicorn because our maximal capitalization was the medium. And they the characteristic of the founder is that oh the founder that study abroad that an MBA. So everyone get this kind of nohow I think allow you to scale up. Because it’s easy to do a startup is not so easy to scale up and because also scale up you need finance, you need to go to the banks, you need to do IPO, you need to have a good management team. So things that is not only the product and the skill. So this is a short, my eastery then the knee on which I can be more precise.

Kevin May:
Okay, thank you very much for joining us Fabio. I mean, let’s, I mean, let’s go right back to that period where you were working with the team at EA dreams. And it’s an interesting story because it’s I think a few people know that it did start out in the US You know has it’s kind of seeds in Silicon Valley so and and ended up being a European otaa so I mean just talk us through that kind of that period of being over there in the US and then realizing that it was going to be better for the company to start the ball rolling as it were, here in Europe where you and I are today.

Fabio Cannavale:
Yeah, it’s it was really easy because it means is born it was born by the merger of hockey that was Spanish and James was American League. And you know, what was a stand for Nike? So was that they hear of internet everything new and whatever Expedia so they said okay, what we have to do do in travel what we do in Europe because just because there was already Expedia us Do we see and it’s funny because the idea of free dreams was not to sell flights, but to give a guy there was dream guides something that totally feed your house in like in 2001 or 2002. And the idea was that the dream guys it was an expert of travel that can give advice of the traveler about local advice you know, these more than that today after 2325 years 20 or 2822 years is difficult to do is in a way is that is TripAdvisor but was not really to practice with it there was 12 local people and one of the founding get found was about the.com that was something’s not in us. So the concept was totally wrong. So as I was wrong was correct but really not applicable and this is something that I learned a lot in my life that something that sounds very nice many times is not doable, because then they advise what not good there was not the business model was a mess to manage with the people there was a point where we had like 2000 guides all around the ward we had to pay them like that something like 50 euro per each one it was a mess and there was no money on that and was funny because then after that we say okay, the guide okay but what we can do we sell to a particular package so we start selling two per package there was no flights you’ll see they dreamscene 90% flights first year at least there was no flights only packages it was it the site was really like a magazine in advertising with some ideas and then all the series was done by call center and we set up a call center with a lady that I met in Italy that was an expert very expert in travel ages yet at the time I think like 2040 agents and just did they decide was a something to get some links and then all the all the battle was on the phone that was in the beginning. Then after one year do I complete an essay Okay, maybe I mean we have to sell also flights because otherwise flights is the business consider that flights that was not electronic ticket, we had to send the ticket till to the customer remember also when we started rolling galatas In 04 there was still paper flights I think in in euro paper less flight or I like it 2000 08 because there was a lot of fight of the system traditional travel agents, again, against electronics.

Kevin May:
So tell me Fabien I mean, when you got to the stage where you were going to launch Bravo fly What did you learn from that initial experience of being on the dreams founding team that you thought we’re not going to repeat that whether it’s a particular type of practice or whether it’s a business model, what is there anything that you can pick out a lot

Fabio Cannavale:
many things First up, having control of the company. So the dream Sir, I think I contribute at least as the other partner to to the company but as they were the founder after dilution, they yet I think 15% each and they had like 2% so I was very important in reality, but that in the shirts so I found that with Marco but my point was Marco is 51 and you have 49 By the way, Marco was I mean he dreams was the marketing director. And and so I started with that, so I haven’t read controlled in till today we own 45% we have the same as a holding company when I have 70%. So I control the company. Because I have 45% together with Marco, but I control the building. And I think adding control of what you do, it’s very important. Because at the end, you know, the key moment, you can decide, this is the first lesson, I say never again, do something where I am in minority. second lesson, not wasting money, and not listen too much to invest. I remember that in dreams we had this was this crazy period 1999 that the more you were spending, the better it is. It was like bowl.com, there was a lot of company that was spending a lot. I remember we, they wanted us to spend like 2 million to have broadband. That is something that today is I mean, it’s all free software and things like it. So at the end, every nor resources, we were much smarter, because at the end that we use everything for free. No, I mean, we didn’t use ever database or anything, all the softer. And basically, we try to have the less expensive solution. And there are a lot of things that you can do. For free that by the way, we were also very lucky that we grow together with Google. I remember a lot of time, we were ready to buy something very expensive. And Google was coming with that, like analytics, for example, before Google Analytics that is for free. A lot of that was very expensive and much less effective. And then Google Docs, Google me whatever. And I am an ambassador lessee of Google intrapreneurs shift, because many companies should do Google because it’s cheaper and normally work better. Yeah. And, and also a lot also, we’ll learn about marketing. Because first, when we started the dream, sir, the Google was not existing, at least in Europe. I don’t remember when Google was founded, probably 9998. I don’t remember. Yeah. But was not really around. But what we were we were going to portals, like Yahoo, like the local one in Italy. And by the travel section, it was a very, very, without No idea. So I give you 10,000 per month 5100. There was no logic on that there was no CPI CPC, there was no oldest concept. That was very funny. But we learned that there was no value in that because you pray that it’s useless. So we try to be both then at the end of dreams like 010. We’re at Google. We learned how to use Google. And really, I think the reason why we could the success rate for graph is that we were the smartest people using Google because we were doing in the same moment, investing ourselves in Google in doing campaign for landlines for Google, because for the people that the marketing director of the Alliance but much less smarter than us, especially the low cost one, but everyone also Alitalia, whatever. And we were going to say, Okay, how much you spend for this campaign, okay, I give me 20,000 30,000, this amount a lot, a lot. And they give you the same traffic, and I certify how many people are sent to you. And so we were bringing the people on vola, gratis, then we may make in trading. So we were spending this money of the airlines, the other user were coming to vulgar artists, and then we were sending the people to them. But there was so big margin because we were spending like zero 10 per user. And they were used to spend 0304. And so we did contract on 0304. And we were by the traffic of zero 10. So we did a huge training, we learn very, very much how to use the tool. I remember the first time that Google conducted us because we were doing everything in Google with Ireland with credit card account. And then we became very quickly one of the biggest spender for Google in Italy. So the Google account came to us and say, You know what, I show you the benchmark, you know how you talk this ad was not with the bench or whatever. And they show me Expedia. That’s it. Yeah, interesting. But you don’t have any reality of me because I don’t have one account. We have five accounts. And in the end, we are spending, making all the calculation, our focus this year, and we have doubled traffic. And they were totally surprising how this is possible. They are the vain triangle display. So we have for tidy performance. Because really, I mean, engineering, we were using golden tools. And we were very, very focused on AdWords. Yeah. And was the difference. And nobody there was. So let’s say we had a team of engineers working on AdWords in 0405. And nobody was doing that. And this was really a change and this is something that we didn’t do any dreams.

David Litwak:
Okay. Very, very interesting. There’s so many questions. I wrote down while you were while you’re talking here. But you know, the normally the the cadence of these interviews is I’m asking business analytical questions, and Kevin is asking about the people. So I’m in role reversal here though, because he said some really interesting things there about your culture and employees and maintaining control. But the first one I wanted to dive in on, as you talked about, you know, saving money. And I think it’s very easy to have a frugal, frugal culture is easy, be creative when you have no money, right. And I think you see this very often with the kind of SoftBank you know, kind of backed companies these days that get, you know, a billion or $2 billion evaluations that they never even asked him for, ended up, you know, pissing it away and end up in a worse situation than they were before. And, and as an entrepreneur, I sometimes roll my eyes when like VCs will tell me things kind of like, Well, you know, sometimes it’s not good to have a lot of money. And I’m like, Yeah, sure. It’s always good to have a lot of money is like it is whether or not you can control yourself. And it sounds like you have kept a good culture of being a how do you how have you kept your frugal culture as you’ve grown, and you have more abundance?

Fabio Cannavale:
Yeah, this is very difficult is a very good team, because especially when we bought last minute, was totally the opposite. Last minute, we bought for one pound, but they would lose losing a 40 million per year. But last minute was never made money was Benin was founded in 98, then they get your tennis shoes, a bowl. And from the day one, when we go to them in 2015, they always lost money. So the mentality was that you don’t have to make money. And so there was a lot of inefficiency, callbacks, things like that. So buying that I remember, for example, big discussion with the CFO that we had, or the CEO of last minute that was about at SAS versus the Microsoft System ACS versus they don’t remember now, the Microsoft solution for let’s say, accounting, and there was a Nah, you know, only because one system Costa three time, you cannot go, you cannot imagine to manage a company or 100 employees with this system. And so let’s see, it’s natural when the company grow, that the management tend to have the benchmark the premium product because they think is better. And this is a big fight, to go down to be more frugal, as you said. So what happened when both last minute the first year, we also we were doing probably 25 million EBIT, da they were losing 40. So the first year we lost 50 million. And then we had to go to a very strong galaxy and fight for four years to go back. And then four years, we went okay, then to 10,000,015, we were really making very low EBITDA. And we did a big work to arrive the COVID that to do 70 to 72 million that we did last year. Because you really understand that in a big company. Naturally, there is a lot of things that nobody use, for example, we put a person that is for my total trust that is with us since 2000 06. from last year, as responsible of all the acquiring, acquiring the sense of all the contracts we do, because the tenancy was that the IT people want to have totally autonomous, they don’t have any contract. And we discovered to have at least 20 contacts that nobody was using for maybe more than 1 million in error per year totally wasted. And this is a company that is stealing stuff dropped the managed by the owner. I can imagine what can happen in a big company. Because at the end, the risk is very difficult. Your answer is if you’re frugal yourself, so for example, me and Marco we have no money, no salary, we have only incentive we have zero salary only based on results. We have no secretary. We have no office. We go in the open space. So if you give me Marco I don’t go I mean, then I leave like 10 minutes by car by the office markup. come every day we did trade. In second class with the train we don’t and he says every time to me. I learn and they weren’t much more for the company in the train from Milan to Casper for two minutes in the morning at 815. And then in the evening when I go back. Because it’s a good example it can talk with the people in the train. And this is an example of everyone because the CEO of the company is very big they value a lot of money go every morning with the train to the people is a big sign Got it. And I think this is a easy way, but it’s very difficult in way.

David Litwak:
Hey, man sounds like, you know, part of the answer is set a really good example yourself and be, you know, be okay with not enjoying the riches of just continuing to Yeah, to do that. Well, yeah, like you mentioned something else about maintaining control. And you said you started with 3%? You know, at the, at the dreams? And, you know, that poses an interesting question, right? Because at some point, everyone has to have 3%, you have a 5149 split with your co founder, right. But that means someone else had zero for a long time, it was working a lot really hard for you. And, you know, it’s never gonna be equitable. Like that’s, you know, the point. So how do you as a founder actually think about keeping your team motivated? While you know, when they aren’t, you know, equity upside and incentivize the same way you are?

Fabio Cannavale:
Well, this is a very key point, and it’s not easy answer. So let’s say we gave a lot, a lot. Some shots today, the motivated the people, what is my philosophy normally is that that we want to see the commitment for the people. So what we did the many times we borrow money to buy shares. In some cases, we let’s say, I don’t know, we, like I say we borrow money and give some guarantee that they would not have a loss. And then there’s also some fiscal problem. But it’s a general, if people put commitment, because a lot of plan SEOs in many other companies were in the board and invested, a lot of stock option plan are given too much for free, because people doesn’t understand there is a big cost for the company, and the people doesn’t understand the value. So if the people put, for example, in that we have a plan, it’s a long term incentive plan where people put normally a part of their bonus in the time in the call, we borrow the money of that. And then this is a company let’s see, where whatever is invested by the people is invested four times in the shops. So at the end, that is the leverage of 16. Because it’s full time is the money we borrow to the person and then four times how much the company is bought. So if there is because it means that if the title go down for two, all our people bought from nine to 15. So even if now we are very bad that in the COVID they are all in the money. But at the end, I believe when there is a commitment also from the team, I think that every valuable incentive that is both long term incentive plan and short term incentive, it’s key, and the people really have to feel the company as their company. But if I can say, is not only the most important, we have a core team of people that really feed the company, as it is their company. And this is, I think, one thing that really matters a lot is if the company is owned by intrapreneur. And they see that the intrapreneur are there every day to work with them. And they have access to the intrapreneur. And they are very fast into decision making. I think this is a very good motivation versus having a manager every corporate and big company. So I see our lift a competitor like Expedia, booking but also dreams where there is finance, there is a CEO that is a manager, the way you can motivate people is totally different.

Kevin May:
Yeah, I’m interested February, you said when you were talking about he dreams, he said there were things that they that they were doing that were nice, but not doable with with regards to products, and I wonder if there was anything in those early few years with Bravo fly that were that you would designate as nice but not doable, just because they didn’t fit him with the strategy at the time.

Fabio Cannavale:
Yes, I mean, many times you are, let’s say, probably too much, and the bounce versus with the customer ready to do. And sometimes you are late. I give you some examples. So we like to, for example, to be able to search and but too early, then the botnet to search jetcost. That would be amazing company whose management led by three people and they were doing like $5 million to gate but really three people not know what we are, like 40 people in jetcost. And so to say that timing, it’s key, we start doing I don’t know that I catch in 2010. And we spend a lot of effort to do dynamic package, but the technology was not ready the system was crashing, because we have media and media and offer information in the cache to have all the tabs on the fly together. And I think the technology was not yet mature when we started. But after let’s say 10 years, probably ahead on this technology because we did a lot of mistakes. Today probably we have one of the best technology that I’m package. In Europe, this is proven, I would say not by us but by booking.com. Because we are the only service present on all the website of booking in Europe, if you go to package is our solution. Yeah, they use even our brand. And they use the Aussie dreams they use a lot of different partner at the end they choose us because we have let’s say probably a good technology but there are so many mistakes and so many trial and errors on that you cannot image and because I think that is first you need to have the technology that is really and then you need to have also the customer that is ready. So it’s these two things. And probably any dream sir. Selling vacations for example, in 2000 nobody was ready because at the end you were selling by phone. And the flight was that the end was the most easy things to sell and having information about the location probably and making money. Also today, there is no really side that is doing in the right way so that you have either TripAdvisor because that is a free source of content. Or you have side like ivani os that is a sort of platform that go to take they can let that bleed but it’s professional prayers of people that just do for free. So the dream that we still have to do something like dreams in 99 nobody as far as I know that correctly that the time so just because the dream everyone is I go out I don’t know, to Paris and they meet someone that really give me in the moment the right things to do in Paris, maybe give me the guide or whatever. This is something that also I’ve been be tried to do in a way and nobody really did it yet. Or there is something that probably is a dreamer and that is not Too easy to do in real life.

Kevin May:
If you’ve made some really interesting acquisitions over the years, you’ve mentioned them at the beginning, I wondered if you could talk us through, because they all seem to be very, very pivotal to the growth of the company. Yes, it along its timeline, whereas many travel brands make acquisitions here and there, and they seem to be just almost nice things to have. But every acquisition that you’ve done has seemed to have been incremental to the overall story, if you can, can you talk us through, you know, the rumbo acquisition? And what was the thinking behind that? And then more recently, let’s talk about the last minute.com one, because that one, I think, is fascinating.

Fabio Cannavale:
Yes, I think acquisition, it’s, I think one of the key factor of the growth of the company. By the way, with a yes, I learned much better big acquisition, there’s more acquisition. For us all this bull acquisition basically was a failure. And they became acquisition was success. Because more oppositional to this new product, new services, new team, at the end, you have a lot of forces, not very creative works. Because acquisition, it’s really transformational for us. So we learn a lot in acquisition, consider we bought Roomba in, I think was 2010. So we were quite a young company, I think we were at about one two people to under 20. And Roomba was a little bit more like 300. And so the effort we put in going down learning and integrating II understand the culture in was really nice, because the way it was born was very funny, because I met in a conference with a CEO fubu that was a manager. And then they say, okay, but we and we ever, immediately a very good feeling, because we understood, we were working at the same thing, we’d probably different, there is no book how to do this, or tea. And so we have to do a lot of solution, especially against the low cost and whatever. And we add some solution, and they get some solution, something were very similar, something was totally different. And so we said that, why don’t we do a group to work together to just to get a benchmark to understand what is the best route to do everything. And then we share the results. And so we did the first meeting about that. But after the first meeting, we understood that that was too much confidential too much difficult because you were it goes really in depth inside the brain of the company. And so I say okay, maybe we combine them because is the only solution everyone to me. You are crazy family. This company’s bigger than new and whatever. But then by chance, the former CFO of dreams. And I will tell him I don’t remember. It’s a good very good friend of mine, but I’m getting on the way. He was the managing the investment for kattiline. A until I went to meet him in Madrid, and we said we have about you know, maybe we can sell because this cap, bliley telephone. Now, we are not interested anymore in this business. We want to Sally do a picture for you without a reality a process. So by chance, we have the chance to buy rumo really. And it was very funny, because then when we really both we tried to understand for each thing, each single thing, were better. And so we try to integrate these two technologies, we did a lot of mistake in integration of logo because we took too much time. And we wanted to, let’s say save too much things and not to lose anything. And also in the mentality we talk a lot about America is America is America, to give more Alexei and to be very kind with the people in Madrid and also change in the name but I’ll fly Uber but at the end we discovered that what this was too much because it took too much time and it was not quick enough. So when we did last minute karma that basically was the same because again we were at the time like six sounds a lot meanwhile seven and so was a little bit bigger than us both in people that they insane and they were much more structural than us because they are UK that I think the school in UK better than something new will open so the people were more manager but that we were much quicker was a very very good challenge for our people because also we are not mother language in English. And I remember my people say Fabio batek seems the Botox not the opposite. He said Bice You are stupid because it’s good that you are the boss but you know And only because they speak better English and are well educated and maybe ever Martha, we have to decide you have to decide what to do. But in this second part, we were much sharper. By the way, we added contact with Travelocity that yet read all their system, because a lot of sister may allege by Travelocity say, in eight months, so we both in marking before the end of the year, so we were much, much faster in changing everything with much more risk of discontinuity, for example, or a platform or dynamic package was not so never add this kind of volume, because it was mainly dynamic package, but with the med platform, and we take a lot of risk. But at the end, we did the things we care about, I think if we do another one, the third one that we do be very, very much more but important for us was that make the Germany on this company we did in one month, we bought this company, out of 100 people we fire like 80 in one month 80% of the people. And we match the platform, basically in two months, was smaller, but was much faster, because we learned a lot if we are when we will do the next one. I think we will be even much faster because we understand what really matters.

Kevin May:
Just just did a final one for me for a moment. I mean, did you last minute.com is a brand where I’m from here in the UK was iconic. In you know, the late 90s through the.com. Boom and the bust and you know, Brenton Mathur and they were you know, they were the figureheads of that brand. And then did you feel when you bought last minute.com and subsequently changed your corporate name to last minute.com group? Did you feel that you had to let go live up to any kind of legacy that that brand name brought with it because of its iconic status as a really early player in the kind of the.com travel world?

Fabio Cannavale:
Yeah, let’s see that last minute. As you said his colleague, Brad is very famous wherever it goes. Dubai on Mondays, everyone that is a British culture of the tno.com, this is a great way. Probably when we bought it, it was very, very going down. Because the technology was not very good, the people was leaving, the sense was going down. So in 1415, it was like a former, also the investment was very low. So we put, just to give you some numbers we let me know was invested probably 10 to 15 million in advertising. And we are investing much more right now. And we take learn a lot we I’d see incorporated a lot of value of lastminute.com. It’s a brand that has a lot of value, a lot of iconic a lot of history. And we try to leverage on that. Also manage the company because we really feel a lot of these things as ours. So to be inspired to be unconventional, and we like very much. So at the end, it was a very good marriage and all the people also a nail, it’s a bit of a fly room already, like all the spirit of last minute. And really the two key pre key people that we kept a last minute. One person is doing internet communication. That is a British guy that is to integrate. And the other one that is in the adult part that is also the I really the spirit of last minute. And they teach the spirit of last minute.com to everyone like for example, I give you an a deck in the last minute.com team. There is the rule that every time you do a meeting, if you don’t if you say last minute instead of last minute call you Yeah, at the end, but the brand that you can defend is last minute calm, not listening. And so these came from that culture, we’re still using that just to say that we incorporate not only the brand, but also a lot of the value and the spirit of the team.

David Litwak:
So it’s funny, when my writing my intro, I almost said last minute and I thought that the fact that you have lastminute.com and in the title of the group, I was like that’s probably on purpose. So I made sure to put that in there myself. Last question for me. So, you know, I think you said something interesting at the very beginning of talk about why you founded Volvo Graduates about how you were able to do roundtrip Milan to London for 50 quid, and everyone else was, you know, 200. And it’s because you embrace low cost carriers and the other guys didn’t. And I feel like you see this time and time again, in startups in general around worries about cannibalization. And if I had to guess I’d imagine that Expedia and all these other guys didn’t want to cannibalize their high margin, you know, flights that they were, they were, you know, making reservations on in exchange for low cost carriers that they were gonna make nothing on. And you came in and did it, and, you know, unseated them in some ways. And so my question to you, I guess, is, you know, how are you avoiding cannibalization of your own business right now? What are you you know, what is what’s next for you? And how are you staying ahead of the curve?

Fabio Cannavale:
But, I mean, this is Is it funny question, because everyone think about the criminalization the reality we were making more money with low cost flights that we did normal flights. The real point was not congratulation the real point who was the both Expedia and most of the site as technology in us in the sea, make us so they didn’t, about what was the low cost flight was in European phenomenon. So and then a selling local flight is also in a way illegal from some airlines, we had a lot of trial discussion, court cases with Ryanair, Porter, we always won. And so for B Corp was not so easy to really to decide to go to. So that was the front. I think that at the end in general about is not really cannibalization is a question of how much margin you have to do and you can, you can take to the point is you have to give value to the customer, would we see that every time you give value to the customer. At the end, you can make margin. He was sending example. Today, agency fee for a lot of flights, but we sell a lot of insurance on the flights. And especially now for example, with the car when people really like to have a good insurance. And it’s it’s a great amount of people that want to have flexibility in flying. So then the real point is really try to give the best the people is ready to pay for the premium if they have a good service. And so at the end is, is this is the key. And then, for example, for us, the question you do is always about we are both Mater and OTA and they could be anybody’s position to be a automaker. But we try to manage not thinking on the on the short term margin, but to think more in the long term value for the customers.

Kevin May:
Okay, so the last one for me, then Fabio, and he kind of, I suppose in a way draws on your entire career to the here and now really, I mean, what have you learned over your career that’s helping you through this particular time? I mean, there’s a lot of pressure on online travel agencies, everyone’s involved in, you know, issues around refunds and things like that, which is it’s not only complicated, but it’s very painful. I mean, what have you learned personally, through your time as an entrepreneur that’s helping you get through some of those issues?

Fabio Cannavale:
Okay, first, I learned that cash is king. So at the end that we were very, I don’t know if y is or was a contingency case and know that we had a lot of cash. So we started the A, the situation of COVID with more than 130 million of net financial position. And Lee you understand what when the risk crisis cash is the only thing because we you can either see even if you have a very strong company if you don’t have cash, and this is less than that center liquidity and cash is something that in the good period you never consider the negative peer is the key part that’s why all the government are giving a lot of money to the company because if you don’t have cash is a problem. So this is is very important. And then also that you can you have to consider that can happen. Very unusual case we had a very similar problem much less of that at the end when there was the option I don’t know if you remember of the volcano in Iceland like I think was the 2010 something like that before two months. Nobody was flying in Europe and was not clear and also that you had to be very quickly reactor you didn’t know need lots of cash. And so these are these events can happen is really the second time that happens, this is much worse, of course, because there’s much longer. And so to say first things, first you have to have your own source to survive. And second, because the good thing is also not to think that everything will change and the body will the same. I don’t believe that. I think that the so this, Scott would do last will become like before, like they didn’t care No, because when they find a machine or at the end that will finish very, very quickly. But this unexpected event can happen, they have to be very ready to survive that. So also, to be very quick to do we just like laying off people closing offices and work on the cost. I mean, because at the moment, the only thing we manage is cash. We don’t care about your the things is cash based management.

Kevin May:
Okay, and thank you very much for spending the time with us. today. Fabio, we really appreciate it.

Fabio Cannavale:
Okay, okay,

Kevin May:
so, okay, so this was another episode of how I got here. That’s mosey on focus wise, weekly podcast where we talk to the entrepreneurs and innovators in travel and transportation. If you’re listening to this, and you’re not a subscriber, you can subscribe to our podcast in the usual places. That’s Apple, iTunes, Spotify, Alexa, Google podcasts, all those places. So make sure you subscribe, leave us a good review, and all those kinds of things. So thanks so much again to Fabio and on behalf of David and I thank you very much for tuning in. And we’ll see you next time.

Fabio Cannavale:
Bye bye.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai