Kevin May:
I welcome to how I got here. This is PhocusWire and Mozio’s weekly podcast. We’re now in season two, where we interview innovators and entrepreneurs in travel and transportation. Joining us this week is Eric Gnock Fah so we’ll give you a better introduction in a second but he works for fluke fluke was created by CEO Ethan Lin, Bernice Yang and our guest Eric nog far in 2014 in Hong Kong. For those that you don’t know, Luke is a major online travel agency for tours, activities and attractions as well as local transportation. It has indeed caught the eye of some of the leading investors in venture capital and currently has pocketed around 500 and $20 million in investments. The most recent fund was 220 5 million series D, which was led by the SoftBank vision fund. Eric, thank you very much for joining us on how I got here this week. It’s great to see.

Eric Gnock Fah:
Yes, hi. Thanks for having me. Okay.

Kevin May:
Eric as his as his tradition on how I got here, we’d like to pose this question to all our guests. And if you could tell us how you got here.

Eric Gnock Fah”
Sure. So yeah, as you mentioned, we started in 2013, late 2014. But the whole, the whole idea came together when me and my co founder, Ethan, who I knew back into my banking days in the finance days, we went on to Paul on a trip to me, I think, to really have a memorable experience in Nepal, one is actually not in Nepal, but pre Nepal, is what going through hours of planning to get to know the landscape there, the merchants there, contact them. Some actually didn’t really speak the language. And I think that went for like really, I was planning right. The second memorable experience is actually carrying it back with cash from Hong Kong, because we’re a group people 10 people and the merchants just the intake credit card and we were careless. cash into the hall and all along we have to use that. So I think that was probably even more, you know, memorable experience because we were worried you know along the way we were gonna get robbed or anything like that. I think that basically gave us the idea that you know the all the hotels we pre booked right on plan ahead of time, but it was the experiences that we had to carry out for. And that was kind of come a light bulb and saying, you know, why why couldn’t the experiences and in destination services be as seamless as you know, booking flight and hotel that where the whole thing comes started form. Bernie actually was the interesting thing, right? He was he’s our co founder more of the tech side. I think I went through a similar experience in scouting for LinkedIn. Just like a scout for experiences in Nepal at the very beginning to to really go through how I think at least like hundreds and hundreds of profiles because I’m, you know, on zero intake that eventually count Found him who you know, luckily was based in Hong Kong, but actually it was from China. So eventually we kind of came together and built our tech and dev team, starting from Hong Kong, but also then extended it to Schengen, which, as many of you guys know, is called the Silicon Valley of China.

Kevin May:
Okay, right. Thank you very much, Eric. So, before we get into the questions, I’m going to ask you something about Nepal. Yes, my favorite. It’s my favorite country in the whole world. I traveled there for a couple of months. In 2001. those activities that you were trying to try to book were they kind of mass market things I’m thinking of, you know, the main temple up on the hill in Katmandu, or some of the things in poker or were they really specific things such as trekking in the Himalayas or stuff like that?

Eric Gnock Fah:
Yeah, I would say both, right? I mean, because it’s the first time so we definitely did you know, the most popular things. So the temples in Kathmandu and sub right. But at the same time we went into Pokhara, which actually does not have an international flight there, and did this really memorable experience called para hockey, right? So you paraglide but at the same time, there’s a pop that comes to you. And you know, there’s a sustainability aspect of that. So we brought both experiences on and in fact, if you check on our platform, my face and even spaces actually on the on the on the on the platform on the on the images, so yeah, I think both. And then eventually, you know, if we look at the business, and how that evolved, I would say that the most popular has to be there, right? I mean, if we look at travel market in general, first time and second time travel is still the maps, right? The unique experiences are getting more popular, but when you look at the sheer number, right, it’s still the first time than second time travel.

Kevin May:
Yeah, I mean, that’s the that’s one of the discussions that always comes up when it’s related to tourism activities. You know, there’s this big push about doing, you know, niche cooking things, but when you go To Paris, you probably still want to climb the Eiffel Tower. Right? So it’s about selling both sides of things. Right. Okay. So going back then. And you you had your kind of experience in investment banking or in the finance world, I think you said, when you when you had these experiences about Nepal and you wanted to create something, what kind of kind of due diligence on your own idea did you go through before creating Kluk? Because you know, and, you know, dare I say by 2014, it was a market that was getting a lot of attention. I think TripAdvisor ads are just bought via tour and this is before booking.com got into the game and get your guide was around and all these other people. So what did you do? Like I said, What do you do? Did you do around your own idea?

Eric Gnock Fah:
Yeah, well, first of all, we definitely had to size that industry. You know, how big is that industry and is a trend there. I think you know, from from a size perspective, there were already research out there. There’s that, you know, it’s close to $200 billion market. Yeah. So from the size wise, it ticked the box, right? The next thing we looked at is, you know, what is the pain point of this industry? Can we make a difference there? And I think the pain point that we identify is the fact that there was still majorly offline. And we do have technology to bring them online. I would say not even online, but mobile. If you ask me, I think part of the reason why we see over the last decade or so, more on the digitization of experiences industry just never took off versus you know, flights and hotel despite there are players right by tour. It’s been around for quite a while already. We fundamentally believe that mobile was the game changer, because people were not pre booking, right they booked on in the trip. And that’s something that we also learned are really just like a month or two into the launching of a platform because we launched with a desktop site, and then two months later, we quickly put it on What what is it that we put come channel all our resources to actually develop the app. And today, over 80% of our bookings happen in mobile right away 50% happen into destination. So I think that was kind of where we looked at it and saw that there was a true between the the trend is there and timing was right. Because of mobile.

Kevin May:
Yep. And last one for me for a moment. But you launched in Asia Pacific or in particular in your home region. First of all, simply by virtue of that what were your home region was you didn’t have any initial designs on being a global player, is that correct?

Eric Gnock Fah:
Well, I would say that we had an eye for it. But we had to start small. So our our vision is always you know, aim big, but definitely have to start small build block by blocks. And then you know, head to the global expansion, which is where we are today.

Kevin May:
Okay, dude.

David Litwak:
Oh, it says that, you know, I’ve been very impressed. Guys like rapid rise. And I think as a kind of Kevin alluded to, we’ve had actually a lot of tours and activities providers on the platform. This past couple months here, head out and via tour. And, you know, one question I like to ask is, how have you thought about bringing these these guys online? So you mentioned that there was, you know, it had delayed and obviously, there’s a lot of back end providers out there the peaks The, the various, you know, guys who are who their entire job is to, to give the software to these guys. But I think you mentioned earlier that they’re much of your industry doesn’t have that and you had to build a lot of it yourself. So have you thought about where in the kind of the ecosystem you draw the line?

Eric Gnock Fah:
Yeah, so we started off as a PVC pipe, right. And I think that’s going to be still at a core in the heart of the company as a DNA. But I think as we come from a develop our business, we realized that we do need to merchants to come online. However, comparing at Europe and US. The biggest difference on the supply side is capital, human capital. So in US and Europe, getting someone hiring someone to just take down notes for the booking, you know, getting the redemption and so forth is costly. Hence, our theory is merchants are willing to pay a fee to the SAS and technology, technology, SAS companies to help manage the business more effectively. In EDA, however, the human capital cost is lower. So hence, they are not willing to fork out additional dollar to get the SAS technology to manage their business. What they really care about is, you know, how many more bookings Can I get? So that’s why SAS never really worked in Asia. And that’s not just towards an activity, but in primarily, almost all industries I know of now. SAS will work if it’s free. So that’s where we had to come in and say okay, We need to build something from a merchant. But we will have to offer for free. Now I have to admit our merchant solutions is not as extensive as the pros, one in European us, but it gets the job done. And it gets our suppliers online on mobile power instant available, the real time of mobility and instant confirmation. So that’s where we had to finally get involved. And I think that also really gave us an edge in Asia, whereby in our current form a barrier to entry because come players won’t be able to easily come in to just, you know, get the same supply as ours, or I would say will take much longer time to be able to get such supply seamless experience.

David Litwak:
I have a follow up question on that. It’s curious. I remember I met up with your co founder when I was in Hong Kong A while back and he was talking about how one of your guys, you guys think about yourself as as a super app. And that is a concept. I think there’s only recently been introduced to America as people kind of think of Google Maps and Uber is trying to become But it’s been very commonly held in Asia. And I think that, you know, I’d love to hear your thoughts on that. Because I feel like in many ways the the possibility that something can actually become a super app is because of the ecosystem that exists in Southeast Asia in Asia have exactly what you just said, which is that people aren’t willing to pay for many of these other products. So like these SaaS products, so they’ll go with someone like you who’s willing to provide it for free, and it actually allows you to kind of get this your talents and a bunch of different parts of the industry and what he would do, like how do you how you think about that?

Eric Gnock Fah:
Yeah, well, I think for us, the super app concept is peals more of a user side. So that drives on how we built the services offerings to the consumer. So from from early days, I would say, we started with towards activities and I think in the West, this industry is more known as the tools and activities, but our vision eventually came down to becoming And all service platform and all platforms servicing all the needs of a traveler window into destination, right? So that’s why we come came in and says, No, we’re not just wasn’t pleased with how we’re taking care of from the moment that you land all the way back when you go back home, right? So what is the first touch point, for example, in Asia, is actually SIM cards and Wi Fi? Back in the days I think a lot of people say, Oh, this is just $1 $2 type of product. Why are we bothering about it? Right? But it is a pain point is actually very, very painful. If you don’t have that weapons in our in us in Europe, you have this all country telecom packages, but in Asia is still very much fragmented for each country. So that’s where we came in and says, you know, we want to do something here. So we innovated on that front, and then we touch the towards activities and all the way to even transportation. So that’s where we call ourself more of a super app for people when they’re on the road. Road.

Kevin May:
Okay. And that’s very interesting. I mean, as David alludes to the super app concept is really only been become part of the vernacular here in the West in the last year and a half or so I’m interested in your, in your response there. I mean, if you could take us back a little bit i’m, i’m curious about the formation of the company a little bit in some of that process for for the entrepreneurs that are that are listening in. Now, you said that Bernie was the was the tech guy. That was part of the, you know, the trio of the three of you. Now how did you and Ethan decide how you were going to split your roles and who was essentially going to become the CEO and who was going to take your position?

Eric Gnock Fah:
Yeah, well, I think it kind of came naturally. So first of all, I think Bernie was an easy cupcake, right? Because he was basically a tech guy, you know, me, you know, had had zero knowledge on that front. So I’ll really much rely on him to build off the The tech team, which is about 500 people today, I think then on the come business operation side, that’s where me and Ethan split. And both of us actually has been called doing each of our roles some extent all along the way, eventually why we have to call him a CEO, I think it’s more of you know, but investors come in and says, you know, you’ll eventually need to know a company’s titles and roles, right. The other thing I would say is also we really complement me and eagerly compliment each other. He is the type where he is more cow, you know, bigger picture, you know, delegation, where I really like to dig into the, into the details. So from that angle, I would say that, you know, from a CEO perspective, to be able to really pull resources together and not get dragged into details, I think is crucial, but the same time someone has really good details and make sure that you know, things are set up in a much more professional way meeting consumer needs, and that’s where else will come in. But in terms of really you know, as a demand is it supplies it like product like I think both of us have touched on various aspects of that.

Kevin May:
And you said you had 500 people, just on the tech side on the tech side now. So, back to those early days. I mean, how did you scale up the company from a people perspective was, was most of the investment in terms of human resources on the tech side? Or were always much more about supplier relationships? Um, yeah,

Eric Gnock Fah:
I mean, if you look at internally in the early days are, there’s really three main core areas that we look at. And in fact, I would say that we’re probably a little late on the fourth area, which we can talk about it later. But three main core areas being tight, right, and then second is being supplied. And that’s in terms of priority already when I when I talk about it, and number three is actually done marketing. So we did actually put a lot more resources on the tech plan to really kick it off. And that’s where we build up on the tech team in Shenzhen. Like being in Hong Kong one of the most painful it’s a painful way to grow the businesses. There’s just no engineers here. Luckily, we border Schengen So it’s very easy in terms of commuting, but also there’s a very big talent pool there. So that’s where we actually spend a lot of resources. And second is afternoon supply. So when we started the business, we didn’t think about where was our customer? Actually, that’s how I think to us was this outside in the approach? Because we are getting on travel, I think a lot of travel agent, think about it is where’s my customer, and then go after that customer, we actually took a different approach we looked at it is where’s the supply? And where where can I add value to that? So at that time, because we were all sitting in Hong Kong, we looked at Hong Kong as a supply. And then we basically did a lot of work in consolidating and digitizing that supply. And then we looked at know where is the most popular where where is the main customer group, and then gradually map that and then we did that again, to the next destination like Singapore and then we looked at where as a customer coming from and it gradually created that network effect, but till today, I would say that merchants and suppliers to our decor. I think that is something to stay right demand on how we acquire users. You know, yesterday it’s car probably sem, right? Tomorrow could be up well already today is Facebook, right? Tomorrow could be Alexa. Right? So the channel, the acquiring user changes over time. But on the merchant side, that is something to stay. And that’s where we’ve been spending a bit more resources, especially in the early days.

Kevin May:
So you sit there with for the three of the four, what is the fourth one?

Eric Gnock Fah:
Human Capital? So having under our front, that was something that we’re really late in the game? I think that was when we were Remember, our first HR personnel that we brought on board was when we were already a 400. Team, people team. Wow. So I think then that definitely had an effect on on the managers I would say right, but at the same time, I fundamentally believe that the best managers also the best HR people, right? So that’s why we relied a lot on the managers to manage people to manage the process. But however, as the team grows, there are other HR expertise that we needed. And we were a bit late on that.

Kevin May:
Okay, dude.

David Litwak:
Yeah, so it’s right. So we work with you guys. Mozu is was one of your ground transportation partners and enjoy our partnership together. But one thing actually, I think we noticed when we first started with you guys, you guys been able to have been able to onboard certain providers in areas that we had had trouble, you know, onboarding in Hong Kong and you see Kluk marketing everywhere when you find it’s a Hong Kong and specifically around the airport train. And I remember you know, I know how hard it is to close some of these deals. I’ve had to personally jump on the phone myself and travel there myself and it got me thinking like, how did you guys prioritize your supply because one of the other issues I think a lot of people have with the tours and activities market is you got your scuba divers next diving trips right next to your transfers right now. everything it can be kind of at first blush, it can seem very scatterbrained as a strategy. But clearly you guys have really thought about it.

Eric Gnock Fah:
Yeah, well, I think one of the core core things that we look at is scalability. Right? How much of the demand is that product or that merchant? is generating? How big is that existing industry? And then we’ll look at is how much more can we add to that industry, of course, but scalability is at the core of everything that we do. So just like you said, we’ll look at a private one, peer to peer transfer versus rail, we will, of course, at the beginning, prioritize on rail. The next thing that we’ll do for p2p is how to build a platform that allow these p2p drivers to come on board. Right. But that is kind of you know, it’s a very chicken and egg thing. So we would definitely go for a product that is a bit more scalable.

Kevin May:
And did you talking about scalability? How did you think about which regions or cities Target next were you thinking of it from a domestic Hong Kong and Chinese outbound market? Are we thinking about those travelers within those markets that you were that you were targeting next?

Eric Gnock Fah:
Yeah, well, we started off definitely from an inbound angle. So how many visitors come to this city or city? Less a country? Which I think, you know, we were lucky that we’re in Hong Kong and if you look at Asia, Hong Kong, as they do get, you know, really high number of travelers until last year, you know, there was a lot of event that happened in Hong Kong that that changes the dynamics and then the next definitely like Singapore, Bangkok, and those have a destination so we did actually roll out city by city rather than like, you know, work with a DMC like a destination management company or a wholesaler and says, oh, let me just onboard all the products around the world. That wasn’t the approach. We did. We did really city by city, which is where we wanted to add value to emergency.

Kevin May:
And more recently, in the last few years, you’ve made a deliberate attempt to target Europe. And it’s it’s that, again, is that using the same strategy and targeting Europeans who want to travel within Europe and the activities that those cities provide.

Eric Gnock Fah:
Yeah, well, from a supply angle, the majority of the bookings that our European merchant partners received today all coming from the Asian customer base. And I think as evolve, you know, the approach will slightly adjust, right, because we already have such network effect that we’ve created in Asia by building out Europe, we can actually go a bit faster, because we already have the demand and the traffic to just drive it into Europe. So then we will accelerate that expansion, but at the same time, yes, we do also see that once we because we have European who are using our platform coming to Asia right now as we on boarded European destination, we actually see organic That the European travelers are also converting with us in Europe. And I think that’s the beauty of travel, that network effect that it produces over time as you build both demand and supply locally and to be able to match that.

David Litwak:
So, Eric, yeah, I want to segue that a little bit into the fundraising discussion. So you have one very well known backer, that you might at this point be sick and tired of answering questions about, but I feel necessary necessity to ask SoftBank you know, back to you guys and I you know, shopping strategy can be summarized as we’re going to pick the winners and then flood money into them and make sure somewhat by default defaults of how much money and more resources they have like you are truly the winners. And that has been proven to maybe not be the WISE WISE of a strategy as people thought it was in the past. And you know, clearly you guys are not among the headline cases of we work in Uber and have showing more diligence and how you use that money. So I think that there’s this common cautionary tale that entrepreneurs are sometimes told a little bit of an eye roll anyway, which is be careful about the valuation you take and how much money you take. And we’re always kind of just kind of like Yeah, yeah, like VCs are telling us that they want to give us less money at a better valuation. But I’m curious how you thought about how do you how to spend the money that you got, because you’re getting hundreds of millions of dollars wired into your bank account must potentially cause you to get you know, to branch out wider. How did you think about focus during a time like that?

Eric Gnock Fah:
Yeah, well, first of all, I think, you know, from day one, we’ve been very focused on sustainable growth. I think the kind of come money burning cup situation, but you’ve seen with some other companies, I think at some time, I To me, it depends on industries, right? In a much more frequently us service industry. I think it makes more sense to count you know, Spend more to acquire customer because you would bet that the frequency of the service will come back one day and to be able to make up for that, right. However, in travel and middlee, the frequency is not there. So hence that’s why from day one would be always very focused on sustainable growth, ensuring that you know, every customer that we acquire, you know, can soon breakeven. Right, so that has always been uncor. Now, yes, indeed, we have also raised a lot of money and the latest investor being software. Now, why do we raise so much money to some extent is less to about how much we really need to run the business? You know, one story that I don’t tell very often, but which actually count, you know, count drove to how we think about fundraising was actually you know, I think was 2015 when we were raising Series B, at the time of when we already signed the SBA meeting, you know, the final agreement. We, the investor dropped out because they had some issues on data. And you couldn’t fund the business. And over that few weeks, we almost had to close down because we waited too long to raise money. But as a business grew that fast, we just needed working capital to finance it. So luckily, the existing investors that were with us would continue to be very positive, and hence a bit came in and back the company. So from from that experience onwards, we’ve always wanted to plan ahead. And I think we were glad that actually we did the round last year with SoftBank. You know, who knows, you know, a black swan event like this could have happened. And that’s where you know, this for fundraising to us, is how we see it.

Kevin May:
I think what’s interesting about that, that investment round that you had spring of last year, so it’s around this time, isn’t it that may in May of 2019, was at the same time as you were expanding into Europe and at the very same time. Same investor invested in your what would become your European rival, which I thought was, which was very interesting. I’m certainly journalist, we thought that was a fascinating story. I mean, how did give us your kind of sense on how that was playing out and how you were going to answer questions regarding that, that, okay, well, SoftBank here is just gonna bet on the one that’s going to win in Europe. But you know, we’ll support both, we’ll see what happens.

Eric Gnock Fah:
Yeah, well, I would say that it was definitely a testament to the industry. And the fact that, you know, you know, SoftBank and investors saw that it was, you know, truly an opportunity in this industry. And the, the new guys, including ourselves is making a much stronger momentum here, and we can continue to capitalize on that. And the other thing is, I would say, despite we had that expansion into Europe, and as I mentioned earlier, our expansion in Europe was mainly to serve our Asian travelers. But that’s him. I do believe in the global network effect. So I Do not say no to a UK customer or a German customer coming to us and forever, building that market as well. But I think what we also saw was a synergy with the SoftBank ecosystem, especially in the Asia side, right? A lot of the major investment like grab like, ojo, dd, and even their own subsidiary, Yahoo, Japan, I think had a lot of synergies with us on the Asian side. And I think that was what some examples to convince us and our board of directors to be able to be open to such a round and to be in partnership with the software. I think

Kevin May:
one of the things that’s always been I found very interesting about the you know, the tos negativity sector because I’ve written about it for a long time and also about hotels and airlines, hotels and airlines, it’s arguably are easier for a startup site to gain some traction because there are standards around connectivity and inventory and availability and all those kinds of things. And that just doesn’t exist in the tourism activities sector. Unless at some point the sector does come together. Now there are the first kind of Inca. There were certainly before all the last madness of the last four or five months happened. There were the beginnings of that, to me was Luke’s position on that, because obviously, standards is great from a connectivity to supplies thing, but often there is a negative side to that. Where do you sit on the standards debate?

Eric Gnock Fah:
I strongly believe that we have to get get our hands dirty to basically set that standard. You know, if it’s easy, just like you said, it’s easy to start probably a hotel booking platform over from the meta because there’s already a lot of connectivity. But ultimately, the question you have to ask is what is the edge that we’re building? Right? And I think when we look at the experiences industry industry, it’s the standard that we’re studying with the merchants who are very non digital savvy and It’s not able to keep up with all the travelers coming from all around the world, you know, this new millennial, which is very different from group tours. So that’s where we add value. So those are indeed the standards that we have is that it is a painful path. And I think for the larger otas, when they looked at this industry, they’re like, you know, it’s just getting the hands too dirty. Someone has to do it. And if someone is able to do that, that’s ultimately his competitive edge.

Kevin May:
Yeah, okay.

David Litwak:
Yeah, so you mentioned outbound. And I think that’s a really interesting, I think, to delve into next because I feel like the outbound market is one that a lot of people don’t understand, though. So Chinese outbound travelers need all these different things when they come to other countries. And you mentioned how mostly, you guys were focused on stuff within Southeast Asia and China, but Europe was mostly to satisfy those outbound customers. How have you thought about servicing that outbound market versus servicing internally within Southeast Asia and China?

Eric Gnock Fah:
Yeah, well You know, the consumer market is humongous. So what we eventually came down to is the millennial crowd. Right? So what is kind of out now? Or is it come, you know, Korean, Alabama, or Southeast Asia out now? Yes, each market has their own needs, but at least you have to be a bit more wise, we’ve found that we had to be at least a bit more focused than trying to really cater for everyone. So by narrowing ourselves to the category of millennials, we can find more similarities, despite the come from different cultures. So that’s how we came about. And I think that’s is also where we Excel and that drive also differently on how we approach marketing and customer acquisition. otas. I think it’s widely known that it’s mainly rely on search advertising, in fact, was our three, three quarter of our traffic or one. Yeah, two third of our traffic is actually coming from direct channels, organic channels, or non paid channels, if I may call that and that’s, I think, it also is That sets us apart from you know, the otas.

David Litwak:
So, you know, I remember one of my first business trips to China, I met with a bunch of local providers and one of them’s there their entire specialty was Mandarin drivers in New York City and the whole point was catering to the the outbound travelers who didn’t speak English when they landed. So it almost sounds like and correct me if I’m wrong here. Your your strategy is more let’s target the guys that I don’t have to worry about getting them a mandarin driver, they’re millennials they speak English, is that basically you kind of sit you eliminate some of these these problems, and just focus.

Eric Gnock Fah:
Yeah, so that does exactly the right answer. So again, we’ll look at scale right now, if China in substant alone is indeed a big enough market, whereby if going into Chinese drivers and servicing that market makes sense, we would also do that, but at the same time we have to be realistic is where well if I can get the as many Chinese problems was going out now, then why not target the millennial crowd who can can speak English and Korean can also But eventually I agree with you and I agree with the company that you met is China ultimately is a very sizable market. So it does make sense to even just be focused on a specific segment in China and grow from there as well. And that is due to a step by step approach.

Kevin May:
Whenever we’ve spoken in the past, Eric, I think we’ve I’ve interviewed you a couple of times on the stage of focus, right, and stuff like that. And you always talk so eloquently and positively about the experience of running Kluk, apart from, let’s say, the delay in appointing an HR person, what other what other mistakes would you admit to having made along the way?

Eric Gnock Fah:
Yeah, well, I would say, you know, it’s, for us to grow from 400 to now about, you know, 1500 people. We definitely needed people that comes with a bit more experience in scaling business, and I would say that we were a little late now. So, however, at the same time, you know, it becomes a very big question of a culture fit, right? You always want to retain that startup mindset, but at the same time, we have to be realistic about that. And I think we came to that real reality a bit late. But the good thing is, you know, over the last year plus was brought on, you know, people that are in the right mindset with double, you know, being agile in the startup mode in growth mode, at the same time as they expand to be able to scale up build up an entirely flexible sales team. I think that’s you know, very important rather than counsel relying on on on manual process for example, right to be will build out a process and technology do not just for the consumer, but internally as well. I think that’s what you have also been lagging a bit behind.

Kevin May:
Yeah, I’ve always interested in the, you know, the culture word for startups, and, you know, especially those that have grown so quickly, headcount wise Over time, and especially those that have spread geographically, I mean, what do you what do you? What are some of the things that you do to, you know, maintain the culture of the company? I mean, do you do weekly all company meetings? I mean, what do you do to kind of spread your vision across the tentacles of the business around the world?

Eric Gnock Fah:
Yeah, I mean, it does. I think there’s no perfect answer to that and culture is as a very, very big word. Um, I would say no, for us looking back, what worked is ensuring our first hundred employees till today, majority of them are still around, and okay. Putting them all across the world. So obviously, the first hundred was probably mainly from Hong Kong, where we started in Singapore, whether the next hub that we we built and then Schengen even right, but by now actually, most of our early employees are no longer in Hong Kong. We’ve flown them to other places, you know, to help start the the team there and stay there. They may not continue be leading a team there. But you know, they still play a key role. And I think having that, you know, I’m very appreciative, you know, for the fact that it’s been almost five years, and they’re still around with us. And I think that to us, you know, was able to really keep that culture. What is that culture? I think it’s, to me, it’s honestly, it’s very hard to answer, but I think that has really helped the team to come together. have that strong belonging still.

David Litwak:
Okay. I think that’s a perfect segue actually into on our final questions here about location. So you are based in Hong Kong, you mentioned Shenzhen and Singapore. And Shenyang is somewhere between a special economic zone and almost charter city but you know, Hong Kong started out as a charter city, you know, these are economic areas that are very unique compared to a lot of the surroundings and you seem to have chosen three out of three of the ones that people speak about in the region. So I’m curious how you think about where you choose to locate considering everything that’s going on. You’re being sensitive here to like the very delicate situation going on in Hong Kong right now. But how do you think about where to locate people as you extend to other countries and currently even?

Eric Gnock Fah:
Yeah, well, I think what drives our decision is looking at where the talent pool is right. So another Li Hong Kong does not have engineers. So definitely from a from a tech development Innovation Hub, it’s not Hong Kong. And that’s where we decided in Shenzhen right. Now, despite what’s been happening here in Hong Kong, I still think that there are a lot of talent in a more on the corporate service side, meaning, you know, HR, no legal and so forth. Now, building out more digital marketing actually isn’t really also the Forte of Hong Kong, but moreso of Singapore, right. So that’s where we’ve also positioned a lot of our talent there. So we are very, I was able to really look at where what talent Do we need and where are they and then eventually come build that, that team on the ground locally, and then specifically on demand and supply. We strongly believe in On the local operation model, so we not only base our sales team on the ground, but we also base our demand team on the ground, to be a lot more closer to the customer, to be able to be able to relate to them much more.

Kevin May:
One of the things that I found quite interesting about the Luke story, and it’s kind of this is something to do with online travel that goes back over 15 years. You know, we are in a period now where many companies based in Asia have started making forays into international markets. We’ve had, you know, sea trips, acquisition of Skyscanner and the trip calm, which has now become the name and your ambitions in Europe. And there there there appears to be almost a great degree of confidence that you’re able to do this. And the reason why I say that is because what’s an interesting kind of contrast there is that so many Western companies try to do the same Come to Asia 15 you know, 1015 years ago, you know, we had Expedia with the long you know TripAdvisor trying to do its thing and you know, and they’ve all ended up either investing or partnering with companies. What is it about your either values or the way you do business that makes you confident that you can come westwards to set up businesses over here or to set up subsidiaries over here?

Eric Gnock Fah:
Yeah, well, I would say point out back to the roots of an Asian, how many Asians grew up, you know, speaking English watching Hollywood movies, right, because I’m excited this already understanding a bit of a Western culture, right, versus if you look at us in Europe, how many of them actually grew up, you know, understanding aiza from whatever media, so to some extent, we have, I would say we have a bit of advantage of doing this globalization truly, because to some extent, you know, relatively well better position. I think what was lacking in Asia, one was talent, and second was capital. And I think a lot of us talent after you Returning from the west, right? Because there was this education boom from Asia towards studying the West, and a lot of them are now willing to come back. And second, because of a rise in consumerism in Asia, capital events that came here as well, along with that is innovation. So admittedly, if you look at China, a lot of innovation, you know, started happening in the last decade. And those innovation are now very much applicable to the west as well, by leveraging technology right technology as a platform is scalable and that’s why we’re doing it. However, I would say in the service industry that has been still yet to be proven and I hope that you know, click will be a good example of of that success because we’ve seen Yes, a lot of I guess, Asian companies trying to go abroad, but it’s been really much on the hardware industry right. And utility product right. And long before even you know higher was have a name but from a service industry wise I think it’s hard to name one that has truly conquered that right to be able to be relevant in the West as well. And we hope that we will be reversed.

Kevin May:
Okay, last last question from us then because we’re coming up against time. I mean, and we tend because you know, how I got here is very much about the backstory and the history of individuals in their companies. But you know, it would be kind of remiss of us not to give some kind of context to what’s been going on, as we say, over the last four or five months. I mean, as a, as a startup, if you still do call yourself a startup or a young business, I mean, how much of a kind of a blip along the road has this last couple of months been for for the business?

Eric Gnock Fah:
Yeah, well, I would say very much in line off lightly where you know, you’ve heard from the industry news where you’ve definitely taken a big toll on the business I think, you know, as speak to other peers in the market. As everyone said, this is you know, all the all the natural disaster plus crowd Put together as as bad as that. But luckily is over the last few weeks, we already seen the bottoming out. Actually, we are seeing growth picking back up in places where it’s starting to unlock up. And I think get that it’s all doing in destination services and specifically experiences is its, you would do experiences when you go abroad, but you will also do experience when you are at home, right, rather than if you were only in flights. And to some extent the hotel, right. That is there’s a stronger need when you go overseas. But experiences is very much relevant. Whether you’re in a big country like us or China, where obviously domestic tourism all the way to a smaller place like Hong Kong or Singapore, they’ll still local experiences. And that’s where we’ve seen organically, consumers still converting and coming to us for things to do.

David Litwak:
You guys done the Airbnb virtual events thing or tried to dabble into any of that.

Eric Gnock Fah:
Yeah, well, we did launch We launched our cook home, which one part of that is virtual experiences. And the latest one that was done last week actually received quite a good feedback we saw were close to 500,000 views on a zoo in Bali, and we definitely saw a lot of Asian travelers well, aspiring travelers do not have online, but we also European looking into so I think it’s definitely has potential there. But ultimately, I still believe that people still have a travel bug and would like to get out and experience the travel. Yeah. In person.

Kevin May:
Okay. Eric, not far that was. That was great. Thank you very much for joining us on this episode of how I got here.

Eric Gnock Fah:
Thank you so much.

Kevin May:
Okay, and thank you, everybody, to those tuning in. This is how I got here at motio and focus wise, weekly podcast where we talk to the innovators and entrepreneur. knows in travel and transportation. Thanks so much for tuning in, and we’ll see you next time. Thank you Have a good day.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

LEAVE A REPLY

Please enter your comment!
Please enter your name here